Prosposal to the board...Part 2

[Laurie]

I have started a new thread to keep all discussion hopefully centralized.

I have talked it over with most of the admin team plus some of the regulars. I have gotten mixed feedback on the issue, some pro, some con.

A couple of folks have brought up a possible compromise and I'd like to share it at this time.


What some have suggested is, why not have two boards?

Mostly likely, many of us will go back and forth between the boards anyway. So...it's one possiblity.

[shesVILE]

Hmmm... That's always an option of course.. but it sort of defeats my intention to lump as many true Carmen fans together in one place as possible so as to show there are deff. still fans out there and pretty hardcore so when I try to bring about the revival it's not a hopeless looking scenario... I figuired with ad free space we can duplicate to look just like this place it'd be an easy sell, but I'm starting to see how it would be inconvienant for some people and also kind of a scary concept cause if we were the type to suddenly get bored and shut down the site that'd be like really bad for everyone else.. but that's deff. not happening... but still... yeah.. I can see where some people are uneasy.. and why you'd want to keep both.. I'm just afraid of a spread thin sort of feel cause like you said before... most people are infrequent even here.. so if your inbetween both boards that means the visits being even more scarce if the person ends up signing up to both.. .. or maybe not.. hopefully the site will be cool enough that it's active... alot.. but.. yaeh... I'd like to just give you guys everything you have here in your own sub directory so your ad free and everyone can reach you that's interested real easy... but if you want to do both... well... offer is still tehre for ya'll to be same hosts you are here over there and stuff... I'm just worried about the community being kinda spread out and then looking kinda non existant... like.. it took me forever to find this place through google and I really WANTED to find Carmen... it makes me wonder how many other Carmen fans are out there that just don't know there is Carmen stuff out there for them to be Carmen fans over anymore... my main concern.. Carmen fans visibility and acknowledge of existance as I open the new site/boards. Even if you guys decide to stay here mainly, we would be very honoured to have you as guests on our boards as well.. but I'd rather have you as the staff.

[Lio]

Hi all. Thought I'd throw my two cents into this...

shesvile, you probably have no idea who I am, so I’d better start off with some basic introductions. I run Crimenet, which at one time was the main hub for WOEICS fanfic online. I’ve also been active at the Manor, on and off, for almost 8 years.

Since I’ve been hanging around this motley bunch for so long, I’ve seen a lot of changes. I was there for the ‘Darkfic Debates’. I was addicted to fantastic writers like Kara French and blazing artisans like Anie. I debated Lee Jordan’s shoe size. Basically, I’ve been around.

And coming from all this experience, I have to say that your idea to disassemble the Manor and the original forum and reassemble it on your site is… well… dumb as hell.

You’re asking Laurie, who is one of the most dedicated Carmenphilles I’ve ever known, to give up something she’s lived and breathed for a decade. A decade. And to a member who, although sincerely passionate, hasn’t been on the board for more than a month.

Laurie is unfailingly polite, as you have seen from her responses to your proposal. (If you had tried to do the same thing with me, I would be typing in CAPS until my keys fell off the keyboard.) But that doesn’t mean that she’s behind you in this venture. Not that you’ve ever seem to ask her if she was behind you. In fact, throughout your compelling arguments, I’ve failed to find a time that you asked her for her help. Considering it is HER board and HER forum that you’d like to move, it was the least you could do.

And quite frankly… I don’t think Vile will stay open as long as you think it will. Don’t get me wrong, you have the skills in spades. Your site design is tight, your analysis of what to do with it is flawless. I haven’t seen it’s like since ‘Until Next Crime’.

In fact, check out ‘Until Next Crime’, if you will…. (http://members.tripod.com/thalesia/)

It hasn’t been updated since 2000, and its vast impeccable photo galleries have been deleted. Why? Because the web manager, distracted by major events in her real life let things slip until the free sections of the site deleted themselves from lack of use.

And it’s just one in a long line of sites, rated from G to NC-17 that has crumbled in lo these many years.

I wouldn’t trust a site I’ve loved for so long to someone who hasn’t proven that she can keep it going for one year, let alone ten.

So my advice to you?

You have your own page and your own message board. Make them the best page/message board you can.

If you want to make it the best Carmen site out there, promote it. Spread the word in the ways you say we aren’t.

Because you’re not going to get the support you need to maintain a major fanhub from taking over someone else’s page. And you’re certainly not going to get support from me.

[Laurie]

shesvile said:

Hmmm... That's always an option of course.. but it sort of defeats my intention to lump as many true Carmen fans together in one place as possible

As Carmen has had several incarnations, finding hardcore fans is actually tricky. Some fans could love, say, the animated series, but not the PBS ones.

I do admit, I sectioned off the animated series with its own board since most of the regulars here are fans of that show. If I ever saw discussion for the games or PBS shows grow, I'd definitely branch out and add boards for those as well. (I liked the first PBS game myself.)

So that's one thing you can do different. You can make areas for all the Carmen incarnations.

You had talked about making ACME areas and VILE ones and such. I mean, that would be different too. I think to make a board, yes, it would be best to make your own rather than a duplicate of this place. There are fans of all levels here. And even, non-fans. Why are they here? Well, they're a friend of a regular who thought they'd show up and say hi. And they liked the place enough to poke in now and then.

See, I honestly don't mind that. If people are having fun, that's really what I like about this place regardless of how much or little of a fan they are. I don't want to kick anyone off for being a little or non-fan either.

But that's just me with this place. My doors are open to everyone. Invite a friend, have fun.

And some of us have become real good friends because of this place. I like that too.


Be it ever so humble, there's no place like home, you know?

[DarkRaven]

Its like this if you liked an aouther and loved there work read all there books, and ideal them.
and one day you say. I'm going to write a book. but insted of writing your oune idears. you ues there and rewrite the same book and call it your oune . I would hate it if someone rewrote My favorit book and call it there oune. i would have no respect for that person at all.
Thats stilling and Thats what your doing . Stilling Yes, your silling everything that Laurie worked so hared she put blood sweat and tears in to this place to mack it home for all of us. and then you come along and say okay i'm going to tack it away from you with out even asking you how you feel about it . thats just wong. Thats like tacking her chiled away from her .
and i can not respect anny one who would do that to someone.
fine your oune idears and mack your bored diffint from this one. like put in a chat room or go in a chatroom and sped the wored about your site .that what i see all thros rolplaying sits doing. or mack you bored a rol playing one

[Kara]

Ok, ok I'll throw my hat in the ring. I'm sorry I didn't earlier, but I have been rather preoccupied with picking up my real life and moving it to Boston from New Haven via the wilds of upstate NY....speaking of which, now that I am in commuter rail distance, we must get together sometime Laurie.

Anyway, as a forumer who's also "been around" I second what Lio said, and not just because she praised my writing. (You ain't too shabby yourself, honey!) I'm not an admin, just a humble forumer, and for the past 5 years or so I've only popped in from time to time...though I'm trying to fix that...

But my point is that not unlike "Cheers" this is a spot where everybody knows your name. What Laurie has created here is something very unique and organic. Even though I guess you're suggesting that all that would be happening here is a change of address (same admins, same format, etc) I can't help feeling that recreating the forum on your site would somehow be artificial.

That's not to say that I wouldn't be happy to stop by and post on your forum, shesvile. I really applaud and support what you're trying to do to reinvigorate the fandom and build a fan community online. I wish you all the best with your efforts, and if you succeed in creating the kind of site you want to create, I don't think you'll have a problem attracting a community...whether they be old hats like us or new fans.

[Carmelena]

I'm not against you starting a website shesvile, or even asking for a collaboration of ideas. However, I think to take everything each individual has worked on and to simply lump it together would be demeaning to the years of dedication that each individual has worked towards. I think that the problem with just making "one site" is counterproductive to the possibilities and to creativity. After all...not everything is for everyone, as Laurie stated before. Some of us are fans in different ways, and most of us are friends. It took years for us to get to know one another, and the fact that Laurie is laid back and simply cool like that helped that to happen. I stay here in part, because I'm a Carmen Sandiego fan. I come here more often, because I dearly love the people I have met here over the past 8 years.

While I talk to you over AIM, I do so in order to get a better grasp as to what type of individual you are, the same as you do with me. The truth is, none of us know you well enough just yet to simply hand over one of the few good things we've experienced over the years and trust you to maintain it. This is more of a matter of private interest than mass fandom. That's one thing I learned about most the Carmen Sandiego fans that come here and stay, we're very much a real down to Earth bunch of people. There is so much that we've shared over the years that you are not familiar with. We've had our share of people going away to college, graduating from college, weddings, births, divorces, and if you had any idea what happens OUTSIDE the forum...to quote Khisondhanna, "Marli Dia"...

I have no problems with helping with a new site, creating new threads and offering input. However, I own my own premium site as well...I just took six months off from my college schedule to pull my life together and do some more of the things I love. My site, while not geared to mass fandom, is my expression. I think that after a decade, Laurie feels the same way about hers. I feel we should keep the Manor, and the board because let's face it...if it wasn't for her, none of us would be here and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Simply cloning her board without previous permission was rude. It's like someone taking your artwork, copying it, changing a few colors and then signing their name to it. We hadn't even gotten to that round of negotiation when that happened, and it angered a few forumers. How are we supposed to feel that you will give us an even say in things if you are willing to do that without even asking? Again, it's a trust issue...and we are still getting to know who you are.

Until that happens, the even compromise is to maintain two boards, design your website and I don't see a problem with linking the sites together out of courtesy. After all, why should a true Carmen fan want just one site when there is more out there? Sweetie, as far as creating this huge fandom following...we are the dedicated ones around here. The Sandiego Manor pops up within the top five results on a multitude of search engines. If any other fans want to find us, we are right here, just as we have been for the past few years.

[Leonia]

While I have nothing against a centralized fansite of all things Carmen, I think it's best to let the idea simmer a bit more.

I admit, the idea's a good one. However, like the others have said before me, life does get in the way and sometimes we can't find the time to update our respective websites/shrines. Even I will confess it's been a LONG while since I've updated my site (though not as long as Laurie's!)

Personally, I think it'll be better if you find your niche first, shesvile. Brainstorm some ideas, surely you'll find an idea or a concept that no one here has thought of. When you do, put it into action and see.

After all...Carmen once said a mind can think up of infinite ideas.

[shesVILE]

Hey woah wait.. I didn't "clone" the board... As far as I knew Laurie was liking the idea so far from an e-mail that seemed positive but unsure... and Heather offered to show that we could create the exact same board because she asked about PHP capabilities or something? I'm not trying to be rude or take over... I wanted you guys to have your board your way but in a domain where you dont have ads. I just can't understand why you've had a site for 10 years that's so cool and is on geocities. If people had just said something in the first place instead of asuming these things the boards would have been set up a totally different way.. the way I had planned originally.. and it looks like they are going back to that way. I said it before and I'll say it again, the board that's up currently is for testing purposes only.. the real site isn't coming out till either late June or early July after the show at Persacon where I come out as Carmen. That's why on the link I sent Laurie as well, there is a Sandiego Manor? question mark section as well because she was still up in the air if she wanted to move her whole site to a paid domain where it could be exposed more. It looks like she got a domain as of today which is awesome.. that was what I was more concerned about.. is Carmen not getting enough exposure period.. every "good" site I've been led to that has actually been maintained and not abandoned over time is on ad based free/cheap servers with really long tags instead of just .com or .org or something and it really detracts. People (from what I've experienced) have developed this mind set that if its not a "real" domain that it's some 14 year old kid with no html skills running there first site and it's going to have annoying midis playing and pop up ads and most people won't even click banners or links or search engine finds to angelfire or geocities sites because of this.

I'm fine now with the idea of two seperate sites if that's what you guys really want.. I just wanted to offer a nice place to you for free because your dedicated, and it would have taken a load off my shoulders to have a moderating team already in place on a board to fill up that section of the site. With the new comic I'm sure I'll draw traffic.. but I'd want to know from the get go how many people were enjoying the idea of Carmen as more then a moment of fleeting nostalgia enough to sign up to the message boards and let us know at the site what has interested them.. or what used to interest them the most about Carmen.. and my first thought was.. building a proper community takes time and I don't have it right now really.. whats the easiest solution.. and I found this place and was like well maybe they'd like there board on a server with no ads... and then I could also add the VILE and ACME Role play game type sections in there own place for a seperate game type dealie.

Laurie and the Manor staff would have still gotten full credit as the owners and originators of the board and her site as well. I'm a bit confused to what all this "stealing" talk is about, since I'm pretty sure I made it clear anything anyone offered up as site content would be credited to them, and they could even appear on the staff/participants/donors part of the page we've been contemplating putting up. The site is not supposed to be MY site specifically, but a site for all Carmen fans to have a place to put there stuff that will be noticed and promoted.

I've got to say I'm a bit taken aback by what seems to be claws suddenly coming out. I'm just trying to help, and I was getting sort of mixed signals as to what was going on behind the scenes on peoples thoughts on all of this. If you want to stay here then there's not much else I can do is there? I don't see why there is a defensive attitude, especially on Lio's part. It's pretty insulting actually. I haven't been here the ten years that you've all worked on this site, so I don't know what you do. All I see as your average internet junkie is there's a Carmen community still active but it's hidden on what (previously) looked to be a dead site, and there are only (at the time I signed up) 67 members. Then I saw something about a move and was like ahh ok they've moved before.. and there on an ad site .. maybe they wouldn't mind moving again if I gave them a comfy place to stay? Which is why I made the proposal... and actually I did ask her.. I asked the "Administrator" of the boards (because I didn't know Laurie at the time) if I could talk to her about it.. I didn't come and go HEY GUYS COME TO THIS NEW BOARD IM MAKING ITS GONNA BE TEN TIMES COOLER THEN LAURIES!! That would be spamming and rude. I made a post inquiring who the admin was or if there was multiple ones and if they'd like there board to be moved to an ad free server. I even e-mailed her personally saying if it was an issue with the original format that'd we'd make her board exactly as it is now and just have her link back to her own site and our site.. like.. it could even be seperate from the boards I planned to make originally... as in still exactly this place from her site linked back to our site as well so people could get easy access to her place from my site as well.. which is basically the same thing your proposing now.. I just was hoping we could have it so all 3 boards could be connected from this main page idea one of the guys was telilng me about (which I don't quite fully undrestand yet because my knowledge of computers is around the zero digits .. maybe negative numbers) because it sounded really cool and maybe some of what has come off to some of you guys as me trying to "take over all of Lauries hardwork" is because I'm not the one who understands how this all works.

If by "be creative and come up with someting original" you thought that I was just going to take LAuries site and board and put it on my own with a VILE theme you are quite mistaken. There are plenty of "creative" ideas already underworks. If by "do someting already not done" you mean don't include things other Carmen sites have already included then sorry no, we'll be doing whatever comes to mind as something a CArmen fan would find useful, wether it exists on someone elses site already or not. The Carmen franchise does not belong to the fans therefore fans cannot dictate that because they managed to get say an episode guide up first on there fan site, that no one else making a fan site should put an episode guide up on there page. VILE Headquarters will not be "ripping the content" off other fan sites. It will gather every and any bit of information it can about all of the Carmen series past and present, but it will be from gathering the information the same way any other fan constructed site would, from the content of the franchises of Carmen itself, and by providing sections for the fans from the fans that are known.. in any fandom.. to be a desirable feature to have on a fan site. (such as having fan art and fan fic sections)


By "handing everything over to me" I'm assuming you mean the administrative privlages to the site right? Because I don't know how much I can give away without giving out the site completely where someone I don't know well enough might shut me out of my own site or mess up something I end up having to pay for.. like this "eat up to much bandwidth thing?" It's been explained to me and I still don't entirely get it. The issue of trust was something ... is something.. I didn't.. or have not.. fully considered the same way you all have.. because I didn't realize till just recently how that could be an issue.

Now it's transparently clear.

What I'm ultimately curious about is if several of you have domains yourselves why not have put this forum on one of them? I'm really not against seperate sites hooked up as affilliates (although I would have preferred to make you a direct extension of the VILEheadquarters site simply because I heard that not alot of people here have time to update there content anymore and I have several people working on this site, that'd be happy to do it for you at your command which would have made it alot easier for everyone in the long run.. but then theres that very good point brought up about "what if" I abandoned this project or had a disagreement with anyone else I gave partial site/board ownership too..? ) I guess only time will be able to showcase Lio's misjudgement of me... or anyone elses.

I have one more proposal for you, and I can't see how this would step on anyones toes, but please don't attack me if it does... because right now I'm feeling attacked. Sorry. I never said "non-Carmen fan" participants wouldn't have been welcomed on the new version of the site, but Laurie you say it again as if I didn't get it the first time, I said o.k. I see how the extra sections benefit the community...which is why we made that "Copycat" version of it because you wanted to know if we can make sub sections so Heather put those up as an example.. and now I'm being accused of "stealing formats"... and what I meant by my interest in the "hard core" Carmen fans.. are the people that never gave up on the series.. or loved it enough to keep talking about it long after it was any kind of mainstream. I didn't mean I wanted ONLY hard core Carmen fans on my site.. I meant I wanted you guys specifically that created this board out of love for Carmen to be the administrators and moderators if the idea interested you.

My intentions for this community are to help it in anyway I can. It's a good community, and is kind of like "Cheers". I think that's a pretty good description for it. If we cannot merge the communities then a sister/brother community/affiliate is the next best thing.... but since you don't want to move.. anywhere it seems.. . is there a way I can donate money to this board to take away the ads so you don't have to move in order to be rid of them? Or is it impossible to get rid of the ads on this domain? Or am the only one here who is really spoiled and can't stand ads? (I think I forgot to mention that I really wanna get rid of the ads)

[Leonia]

I think the biggest problem is (and don't take it too offensively) that aside from the VILE HQ forum, there's nothing else to show for your effort.

An adfree "Coming Soon" website is bound to garner as much vitriol as a well designed, but adsupported website hosted on Geo or Angelfire, as far as I can tell.

[shesVILE]

Well.. err.. no offense taken on that note because I'm not really trying to garnish attention to the VH site till we release it in the summer. See.. I think the board thing is throwing people off or something. Heather only put up a board because we're testing the boards on various peoples internet browsers and to show Laurie we could make the sub sections she asked about in an e-mail. We're not exactly trying to grab people yet (if we were I would have invited the lot of 1up.com supporters that signed up to my Carmen's Revenge club to come to the new boards and we'd have roughly 40-50 members right there) but I haven't.. because they're really not ready just yet.. the only reason there in public view is because it's necessary to test them... and I wasn't about to expect anyone here to sign up because I wasn't going to just assume people would immeaditley go for the idea of making the move... (Anyone whos signed up to that board is either on the site staff testing, or signed up on there own free will.. not from me being like CHECK IT OUT! THE BOARDS ARE OPEN! Sign up right now even though theres nothing to do! woo hoo! ) Is that where there is some confusion? That people thought I was already trying to move people over to the test board?

Because I didn't even put up a link asking people to check it out..err.. Laurie did.. and it's only purpose so far was to show her what we could do with the sub-sections. (and while we were making them test out the sub sections and make sure there weren't any glitches... like one we found where the font was shrinking for FireFox users ) That and I told a guy from JACON about the site and knew it was the only info he had as a way to find me online as "Carmen" so since we had to get both of those things done anyway, we made that section for people who have already "spotted" Carmen at JACON.

On the ad thing, I'm not trying to diss on this site because I was absoloutely thrilled when I found out there is a whole community of people who like something I like and who are also just really smart laid back creative people. I just want to get rid of the ads because I know that in a general consensus most people hate them and avoid even really awesome sites that have them. So if were seperate sites as affiliates that's less convienant to me, but the point of the proposal was to make you guys happy and show my support as a REALLY big Carmen fan. So my only other thought on how I could help the community and get rid of the ads here without being suspected of trying to "take over" would be to donate to get rid of the ads. After all a well designed non ad supported site is better then a well designed ad-supported site right?

There is also things that I assumed the admin/mod team saw through email that the general public hasn't yet.. because I sent several links of the main page site design that we're not putting out to the public yet to Laurie in a cc mail.. because it's not done.. and some of the stuff ... on the site... well it is all being put out at a very specific date for very specific reasons that is GOING to draw traffic (that's not what I'm worried about.. it's geting the traffic that comes to stick around for a cup of coffee or tea.. if you know what I mean?) It'll draw traffic, when it's done and READY to draw traffic. My purpose here was to offer up you guys your own free space to do your thing on the site BEFORE any of that happened... so we could adapt the site to adding all the awesome stuff you guys have already collected.. uh.. collectively, that is if you wanted to be part of it... which is why we had to ask first... caues it'd be rude to assume.. but now I see that still doesn't work because it just comes off like a pie crust promise... "Oh we're gonna have a really cool site.. you just can't see it yet.. but yeah.. we're deff. gonna have a really cool site.."

*floaty stare into space*

So I totally see your point... It's hard to believe theres gonna be anything there when all there is now is a "Coming Soon" tag and a test board.. but.. if we put up all the stuff up first and then came in here and were like "Hey wanna be part of this?" and you'd said yeah! at that point we'd have to rearrange the whole site again.. which would irritate my web designers a bit. ^^; (o.k. alot is more like it) I guess it doesn't even really matter if you believe if I'm gonna actually go through with maintaing this mega site or not anymore, anway, since it seems like peoples minds have already been made up that a move is a no. Since that's pretty much settled my question now is can I aid this community in another way or is that gonna come off wierd and uncomfortable? Or is it not even possible? ( I don't know how these kind of sites work if you can pay to get rid of the ads or not) It wouldn't be overly generous and creepy if you think about it.. because it'd be for my benefit too as a community member.. I'd just like to hang out on one of my new favourite boards without ads.. and if that happens to benefit anyone else... ;D

[Erin]

How about this then? Let's just hold judgement until VILE HQ is up and running and we can see exactly what you're offering.

Because the main problem is, from what I've seen and talking to some of the other forum members is that all your ideas SEEM, repeat SEEM, to come off as "I not only want the best Carmen fansite on the web, I want the ONLY Carmen fansite on the web." It's probably not an accurate interpretation, but as I said, that's how it comes off.

The other problem is that your webteam doesn't seem to be fans of Carmen the way you are. More like they're in it just to build the site, which means that we have no guarantee, admin rights or not, that they'd actually LISTEN to us when we wanted something added to the indicated sections of the site, assuming we went with your ideas. Especially, if adding this board to the site after the fact is going to annoy them as much as you say. It's not very encouraging.

So thaty's my two cents: table the decision until the location is up and running.

---Erin

[shesVILE]

Erin,

Your words make the most sense to me right now and you have good intuition. My web designers are in this 2 of them for a college project (or were.. they got reassigned or something and now they just want to help cause they're really nice and they've given me a vote of confidence that my plan for the site is a pretty good one and pretty unique.. Heather on the other hand is my web designer for all of my sites and never bails on anything or interferes with creative freedom for whoever directs her. I would be like.. "Trust me dude, you can totally trust her.. She's an expert content updater" except.. yeah.. that doesn't help because you don't know me very well either so I agree with everything you've said. It comes off pie crust promise so I think it's best to drop it.

I hadn't really realized how uncomfortable the idea could be to everyone here though. I want to make an ultimate database... yeah.. but I think I'm not explaining it right... and theres alot of stuff I'm keeping hidden like Willy Wonka style.. cause the best kind of prize is a surprise! *giggle* err.. nevermind. I guess.. I keep using this example with everyone I talk to it about.. like Mugglenet does for Harry Potter... not trying to really "take over" or outshine anyone elses stuff.. just help it grow and revive it.. I mean we'd all be deluded to say that just cause this board is fairly active that Carmen is still a hot item... but I want her to be again, and the people here.. I don't know.. I was just like these people are so cool. People must see them! I will put them on my site! But I've been working on the site alot today and realizing it's probably a good idea to just do the affiliate thing because of the way the themeing is going after tonight anyway.

I still want people to see this site though so I'd love to just take out the ads somehow so I can recommend it as the best place to go if the person going to the site isn't quite into the character/role player/alias feel were moving into and just wants a casual place to chat that's still very much Carmen related. I also never intended to come off the way some of you are seeing me. I wanted all of US to have the best Carmen site on the web... like a community.. a really big one... just cause there aren't many Carmen fans left that are really "fans" if you know what I mean?

I sort of assumed from reading up on the posts everyone was to busy to work on there own sites individually so I'd be doing people a favour if I compiled all onto one big fan site for everyone.. but if everyone likes maintaining there own sites and I'm not doing anyone a favour by offering to do that then I don't want to. I just wanted to help but I guess I misunderstood.. so .. yeah.. I just don't know what else to say except Im here for anyone who needs me that wants there stuff on a safe place or on an ad free place... but I'm just gonna leave the whole "move the board" thing alone cause it's just seeming to aggrivate people and I don't want that.

[Flag]

erin said:

How about this then? Let's just hold judgement until VILE HQ is up and running and we can see exactly what you're offering.

Okay!

erin said:

Because the main problem is, from what I've seen and talking to some of the other forum members is that all your ideas SEEM, repeat SEEM, to come off as "I not only want the best Carmen fansite on the web, I want the ONLY Carmen fansite on the web." It's probably not an accurate interpretation, but as I said, that's how it comes off.

Hey... I'm Heather. Just posting to try to help Steph clear things up again.

First off I think I'll address this "only website" issue.

This simply isn't the case. What we offered Laurie was her own sub-account, on the account. She'd have complete FTP access to her own web space in which she herself could move her own site to (and domain name services if she wanted that). Neither Steph nor I ever thought of taking her ability to update the thing away from her... we were in fact trying to make it easier for her to do so.

Second: The message board.

We installed it with it's grand total of 3 sections and were content with that in order to keep up communications with new friend's we made at JACON.

From what I understand Laurie asked Steph if there was a way to get the same kind of sections on those boards as there are on these boards. So upon request, I reorganized the boards and confused the two other people that were already registered with so that we could show her.

There wasn't much more thought to it than that.

If Laurie wanted, we could have even set her up with her own message board on her account so she could have some customization fun that proboards doesn't offer.

Why would we want to help you guys out like this?

We got to much web space. That's it in a nutshell.

Steph's brother just started up a professional business hosting service and gave her an account so that he could watch how well the server responds to being online and handles traffic, develop a tech support system, and so on and so forth.

Even though her proposed website is expected to get traffic when we finish it, it's not expected to get as much as her brother would want in order to test everything out. Rather than just hand out free space, she was being cautious. She liked this community and rather than come in as your generic Carmen fan, she thought that she would contribute something that would benefit everyone (kind of like that random person that bakes cookies for the entire class... for no reason at all).

erin said:

The other problem is that your webteam doesn't seem to be fans of Carmen the way you are. More like they're in it just to build the site, which means that we have no guarantee, admin rights or not, that they'd actually LISTEN to us when we wanted something added to the indicated sections of the site, assuming we went with your ideas. Especially, if adding this board to the site after the fact is going to annoy them as much as you say. It's not very encouraging.

What would annoy us? I missed that.

I'll address this since this is currently my fault.

I took the project over after our designer/developer was forced to drop the project and work on something that he was assigned as his final (he had been hoping to do this for his final since it was something that he could relate to, but that's not how school/ the graphic design industry works).

Because of this the "coming soon" thing has been up longer than expected and now I'm the one developing the backend (I only just now got the news-updater script installed and working).

I can't say that I am as big a fan of Carmen Sandiego as you guys are, but I still have my atlas that came with the copy of "Where in the World" that I saved up for and bought at a whopping $50, when it was new. As a little kid with a small allowance, that was hard, but I loved our lady in red and to this day she makes me smile.

I always was a bit of a puzzle gamer though and sad as it is to say, the MYST series stole my heart away from Carmen when that came out... so I definitely cannot lay claim to being a very big Carmen fan at all.

What I can lay claim to is being really f'in dedicated to the websites that I maintain. There's nothing that I can't stand more than some idiot designer going in, doing a project and getting paid big money for it, only to disappear forever the second that the site is up and doing it's thing.

That (and online role-playing) is the reason that I got into web programming and design in the first place. I used to try to get people to do it for me and they would just disappear. It pissed me off then when they did it, and it pisses me off still.

That's me though, and honestly it's not completely relevant to this whole thing since I wouldn't necessarily be the one maintaining Laurie's account. Laurie would be.

So in a Nutshell
_{(because I know that I'm not the only one that reads these things at 4 in the morning)}

1.) Laurie would retain full control of her account.

2.) The message board was structured for Laurie... it actually hurt us a tiny bit to redo the sections that way.

2.) She could have had her own PHPbb if she really wanted it.

3.) We have to much web space, but we were only really willing to share it with her.

4.) I stick with my projects.

5.) If we're going to fight over this, we should just make a web-ring and get the conflicts done and over with because this fighting is just silly.

Good night
^_^

[Flag]

Meh... I couldn't sleep.

Optional Carmen Sandiego Webring Code:


<table><td><a href="http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring=CarmenSandiego;id=***SITE ID***;action=prev"><img src="http://tinyurl.com/engy4" border="0"></a><a href="http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring=CarmenSandiego;action=list"><img src="http://tinyurl.com/gzbhs" border="0"></a><a href="http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring=CarmenSandiego;action=addform"><img src="http://tinyurl.com/hz5pp" border="0"></a><a href="http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring=CarmenSandiego;action=rand"><img src="http://tinyurl.com/glwto" border="0"></a><a href="http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring=CarmenSandiego;id=***SITE ID***;action=next"><img src="http://tinyurl.com/j37r2" border="0"></a></tD></table>

Sample can be found here: dragonmun.com/temp/carmensample.html

And just so I don't somehow seem hoggish about the idea or anything (cause I can't really expect you guys to trust me), whoever wants to take over it can do so. Just send me an email at [e-mail] and I'll give you the ringsurf login information so you can take over.

Since I get email notification of when sites are submitted, I'll maintain it until someone else wants it. It's not that big of a deal.